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Author Topic: Book 7 title (spoilers)  (Read 340 times)

Ping

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Book 7 title (spoilers)
« on: December 21, 2006, 10:39:22 AM »

So, the book 7 title is official "Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows."

Hallows? I don't know that I've ever seen that used as a noun before.

Websters has it as a transitive verb:
1 : to make holy or set apart for holy use
2 : to respect greatly

What do you think it means? Ghosts, perhaps?

Talk about cryptic.
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SeaShelly3

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Re: Book 7 title (spoilers)
« Reply #1 on: December 21, 2006, 03:38:35 PM »

Hallows... I associated it with a kind of dark forest of a swampish variety, but I could just be making things up.

Deathly is quite a grim adjective.

Um... I'll come back when my jaw manages to make it off the floor.
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Re: Book 7 title (spoilers)
« Reply #2 on: December 21, 2006, 03:49:21 PM »

Hallowed is made sacred. Like All Hallow's Eve. So I guess there it's sort of a noun.

Deathly does bode ill for our intrepid band of adventurerereres.
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Cho Chung

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Re: Book 7 title (spoilers)
« Reply #3 on: December 21, 2006, 04:32:28 PM »

//smacks Ping to get her to stop stuttering//

Yeah.  At least creepy, if nothing else.  Funny, I had the same image as Shelly when I heard the title.  Makes me wonder if that's where the final showdown will be between Harry and LV.
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Re: Book 7 title (spoilers)
« Reply #4 on: December 22, 2006, 09:53:11 AM »

I had a similar image, too, of sorts, anyway. I think it was the combination in my head of the term "hollow" in its geographic sense and "mallow," which grows in swamps.

It's interesting to me that it's "deathly" instead of "deadly." I know this should mean something, but I'm not quite sure what. I still think it has something to do with ghosts. :)
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Re: Book 7 title (spoilers)
« Reply #5 on: December 23, 2006, 11:40:11 AM »

From the beloved OED:

 2. In pl. applied to the shrines or relics of saints; the gods of the heathen or their shrines.
  In the phrase to seek hallows, to visit the shrines or relics of saints; orig. as in sense 1, the saints themselves being thought of as present at their shrines. Cf. quot. c1440 in 1.

c1200 Vices & Virtues (1888) 3 o menn e halle gode behaten god te donne, oer hale to sechen. c1385 CHAUCER L.G.W. 1310 Dido, Sche sekith halwis & doth sacryfise. c1400 Destr. Troy 650 Swiftly to sweire vpon swete haloghes. Ibid. 10948 With Sacrifice solemne [ai] soghten ere halowes. c1489 CAXTON Sonnes of Aymon xxvi. 552, I wylle..that ye bere wyth you the halowes for to make theym swere thervpon. 1523 SKELTON Garl. Laurel 1636 Right is over the fallows Gone to seke hallows. 1561 Schole-ho. Wom. 309 in Hazl. E.P.P. IV. 117 On pilgremage then must they go, To Wilsdon, Barking, or to some hallowes.

3. hallow- in Comb. (chiefly in Sc.) is used for ALL-HALLOW- = All Saints'-, in HALLOW-DAY , HALLOW-E'EN , HALLOWMAS , HALLOW-TIDE ; also hallow-fair, a fair or market held at Hallowmas; hallow-fire, a bonfire kindled on All-hallow-e'en, an ancient Celtic observance.

1795 MACPHERSON Wyntoun's Cron. Gloss., Halow-fair is held on the day of all saints. 1799 Statist. Acc. Scotl. XXI. 145 (Jam.) But now the hallow fire, when kindled, is attended by children only.

4. A loud shout or cry, to incite dogs in the chase, to help combined effort, or to attract attention.
c1440 Promp. Parv. 223/2 Halow, schypmannys crye, celeuma. 1583 STANYHURST Æneis II. (Arb.) 45 With shouting clamorus hallow. 1603 DRAYTON Bar Wars II. (R.), With noise of hounds and halloos as distraught. 1634 MILTON Comus 481 List! list! I hear Some far-off hallo break the silent air. 1783 COWPER Epit. Hare 4 Whose foot ne'er tainted morning dew, Nor ear heard huntsmen's hallo. 1837 MailScanner has detected a possible fraud attempt from "dictionary.oed.com.ezproxy.samford.edu" claiming to be W. IRVING Capt. Bonneville III. 226 Gallopping, with whoop and halloo, into the camp.
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Re: Book 7 title (spoilers)
« Reply #6 on: December 25, 2006, 10:59:40 AM »

Hurray for the OED :) One of these days I should invest in a real dictionary. I love dictionaries.

The fourth option there, while amusing to imagine it being part of the Headless Hunt, seems a bit unlikely. :)
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Angelina Tonks

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Re: Book 7 title (spoilers)
« Reply #7 on: January 08, 2007, 06:58:53 PM »

Quote
2. In pl. applied to the shrines or relics of saints; the gods of the heathen or their shrines.
Could this, in some round-about out and almost impossible way be referring to the last horcruxes Harry needs to get? 2 of them are relics of the Hogwarts founders' (Hufflepuff's cup and the possible item of Ravenclaw or Gryffindor), and maybe the word "saints" could be stretched to include the Hogwarts founders? In fact, http://dictionary.reference.com (I'm too lazy for paper dictionaries :D) states a saint is:

Quote
3.   a founder, sponsor, or patron, as of a movement or organization.
(among other things). Could "hallows" possibly have anything to do with the founders?

I have the feeling it's something to do with the remaining horcruxes, or possibly some sort of shrine Voldemort has to Salazar Slytherin in which they face their last battle?
« Last Edit: January 09, 2007, 06:43:13 AM by Angelina Tonks »
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Re: Book 7 title (spoilers)
« Reply #8 on: January 09, 2007, 04:32:25 PM »

I hadn't thought of the horcruxes as saintly relics, but it's kinda of an eerie comparison. Good call. :)

Is book 7 out yet? *agitation*
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Heather

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Re: Book 7 title (spoilers)
« Reply #9 on: January 23, 2007, 07:35:09 PM »

Think this could reference what lies behind the veil through which Sirius disappeared?
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Re: Book 7 title (spoilers)
« Reply #10 on: February 09, 2007, 09:47:08 AM »

I just assumed that it would have something to do with where Harry and Voldy would face off.  Kind of weird name for a book but I still like it.  I'm gonna go with the spooky aspect of it. 
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SeaShelly3

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Re: Book 7 title (spoilers)
« Reply #11 on: February 09, 2007, 01:41:50 PM »

Does anyone else think it's just a coincidence that the place where Harry was born is called Godric's Hollow? Hollow = Hallows?

In other (only slightly off-topic) news, JKR just updated her site again with her typical answers: she can't tell us what Deathly Hallows means, she won't tell us the other two titles she considered, and she says this book is her favorite (just like HBP and Phoenix, LOL.)
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Re: Book 7 title (spoilers)
« Reply #12 on: February 09, 2007, 05:35:41 PM »

I'm not sure I think there's much of a connection between "hollow" and "hallow" but the sound. They have very different connotations to me. But this being JKR, there's no knowing! :)
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Re: Book 7 title (spoilers)
« Reply #13 on: March 09, 2007, 10:55:23 PM »

Here's my take on the title.

'Hallow' and 'hollow' are two different words with two different meanings, so I don't think there is any connection. It's just a coincidence, or even further, it could have been an intentional way for JKR to confuse us. You never know! Either way, I don't think the words are connected.

While searching through dictionaries, I came across another verb tense of 'hallows': To give over by or as if by vow to a higher purpose: consecrate, dedicate, devote.

Okay, this may just be me, but after reading that, big, bright, screaming lights playing Jack's Mannequin songs (great band, by the way!) started going off in my mind. The series is full of different vows! From the one between Snape and Narcissa, to the one all Death Eaters make to Voldemort (the synonym 'devote' came to mind), to the other dozens of events we don't know about yet. There's even that possibility that Snape made a vow with Dumbledore to kill him. You never know, and with JKR there are so many possibilities. That's why I think 'hallows' means vow-- there are so many ways to look at it, and JKR likes to keep us guessing; she wouldn't make it obvious, and I think the connection between 'hallows' and 'halloween' is too obvious for her.
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Re: Book 7 title (spoilers)
« Reply #14 on: March 11, 2007, 05:32:03 PM »

There have been many deadly promises.  That is an interesting take.  I wonder if the backstory on James I hope to be in this last book will be one of the fatal vows.
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Re: Book 7 title (spoilers)
« Reply #15 on: May 21, 2007, 08:25:57 PM »

I saw this in a post on another board, and thought it was interesting:

Quote
The Hallows could refer to the Four Hallows of Arthurian legend. They are intimately connected to the Holy Grail

The Four Hallows are:

The Cup or Chalice
The Baton or Wand
The Sword or Dagger
The Coin, Disc or Pentacle

Interestingly enough, we have seen all (chalice = goblet of fire; wand = Harry's wand; sword = Godric's sword used in Chamber of Secret; coin = Dumbledore's Army coin).  I think this is an interesting take which I had not heard before.
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Re: Book 7 title (spoilers)
« Reply #16 on: May 21, 2007, 11:44:26 PM »

Hmm, that's very interesting. The Chalice could also be the Hufflepuff cup we saw, and the pentacle could be the necklace. We know Voldy was interested in the sword of Gryffindor, but that he probably didn't pull off using it.
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Re: Book 7 title (spoilers)
« Reply #17 on: May 26, 2007, 04:16:12 PM »

So, in other words, the Hallows could be each of the things that are connected somehow to the 4 founders of Hogwarts that LV then took and made into horcrux?  Isn't that what Harry is supposed to be spending book 7 looking for and destroying?  All the horcruxes? 
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Re: Book 7 title (spoilers)
« Reply #18 on: May 26, 2007, 11:13:26 PM »

That is what I think.  I like the theory because it approaches the "hallows" in a way that we haven't expected/isn't the most obvious interpretation of the word.  The cover art shows some of the hallows if you use this interpretation.

Is it possible, under this interpretation, that YKW's wand could be a horcrux?  I always thought it was strange that Wormtail kept up with it.  I know wands are special, and YKW would want his regardless, which is why I did not dwell too much on the issue.  However, it was present when he was trying to kill Harry
« Last Edit: May 26, 2007, 11:15:52 PM by Heather »
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Re: Book 7 title (spoilers)
« Reply #19 on: May 27, 2007, 01:00:30 PM »

Very interesting theory, and so far the most plausible to me.  So would the wand belong to one of the founders, or is it simply that he made it a horcrux somehow? 

I still don't completely buy that he made a horcrux in his attempt to murder Harry (primarily because he didn't actually kill anyone), but I like the theory in general.  And recall that it is likely that Nagini plays a role here somewhere, too.
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Re: Book 7 title (spoilers)
« Reply #20 on: June 07, 2007, 08:20:37 PM »

Very interesting theory, and so far the most plausible to me.  So would the wand belong to one of the founders, or is it simply that he made it a horcrux somehow? 

*is excited*
If I recall correctly, Voldypants doesn't have anything of Gryffindor's yet that we know of, right? Well, what if Fawkes, being an immortal phoenix, once belonged to Gryffindor, and so our favorite evil mastermind made his wand, which contains a feather from Fawkes, into a horcrux?

And, for your Shelly-branded Crazy Theory of the Day™, I'm going to ask a completely random question. What if Fawkes himself was a horcrux? If I were a murdering jerk obsessed with Hogwarts artifacts and immortality, I would probably pee myself with happiness at the prospect of making an immortal pet of Gryffindor's into my horcrux. But then what does that imply about the two wands that contain Fawkes' feathers? Are they also horcruxes? Pseudo-horcruxes, maybe? And if Fawkes is a horcrux, (which I'm not saying is true) then things look rather hopeless, don't they?

Just a thought.
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Re: Book 7 title (spoilers)
« Reply #21 on: June 08, 2007, 08:03:56 PM »

Erm, that first part was an interesting idea, Shelly.  The second part, well, erm ... yeah, that first part was interesting.  If this is true, then perhaps he specifically commissioned that wand.

And now, LV has kidnapped Ollivander to help him figure out how to overcome priori incantatem.

Since we know nothing really about Godric Gryffindor (funny how we know a lot more about Salazaar Slytherin), it's hard to guess what else might belong to him other than the sword and the sorting hat ... and Fawkes.

 
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Re: Book 7 title (spoilers)
« Reply #22 on: June 13, 2007, 10:37:12 PM »

Apparently, if you look at the title in other languages, it's translated approximately as [spoiler]Relics of Death.[/spoiler]

Interesting!
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