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Author Topic: How does a witch/wizard know whether someone is "inside" their pensive?  (Read 275 times)

Angelina Tonks

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How does a witch/wizard know whether someone is "inside" their pensive?
I was wondering this because when Harry enters the pensive in GoF and OotP, Dumbledore and Snape know immediately that he is inside it. How would they know this?
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Probably from the fact that the person is leaning over it with a blank expression. :D
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Cho Chung

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Yeah, I assumed that the person was still physically sitting in front of/over the pensieve but, in their minds, transported to whenever and wherever the memory they are watching takes place.
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Ping

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So, here's a question--is it possible to get lost in someone else's thoughts? Can you be lost and not get out again?
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Cho Chung

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Sounds like a metaphysical/existential problem to me!  :P
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Deedra Malfoy

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i don't think you could get lost if the person immediately knew you were in their thoughts, leaning over the pensieve.
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Heather

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Good question Ping.  Both times Harry went into the Pensive, he was brought out by the owner of the memories.  How would someone bring themself out of the memory?
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Deedra Malfoy

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Good question, Heather!

The world of JKR is meant to confuse us!
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Susan Bones

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If someone wanted to punish you badly enough, and they just so happened to have a Pensieve of a truly horrific memory, could they lock you in a room with a Pensieve and make you believe (somehow) that the events you're seeing were real?

When the memory was over, would it start up again?  Would it go around and around for all eternity?  Until you died of starvation, that is?

That's always been my idea of H/ell....a place where your bad memories never let you alone.

//shudders//
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Deedra Malfoy

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Re: How does a witch/wizard know whether someone is "inside" their pensive?
« Reply #9 on: August 05, 2004, 04:41:22 PM »

Scary thought, Susan.

I think you bring up a very good point, though. Getting caught in Snape's memories forever? His arms, maybe. But not his memories.
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Susan Bones

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Re: How does a witch/wizard know whether someone is "inside" their pensive?
« Reply #10 on: August 10, 2004, 06:40:26 PM »

Ew.  No, seriously.  EWW.

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Deedra Malfoy

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Re: How does a witch/wizard know whether someone is "inside" their pensive?
« Reply #11 on: August 11, 2004, 03:32:16 PM »

Okay. I was trying to joke, but evidently it wasn't funny enough. I apologize now that your eyes had to see that.
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Madeleine

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Re: How does a witch/wizard know whether someone is "inside" their pensive?
« Reply #12 on: August 11, 2004, 05:04:28 PM »

I accept your apology, and echo Susan's EWW.  *makes icky face*  *rubs eyes*

Could they "lock you in" their Pensieve simply by not getting you out?  Can you find your own way out of someone else's memories?  I wonder if this will be answered later on, if we'll see another Pensieve in the books.

Also, if the wizard actually extracts the memory from his mind to put it in the Pensieve, does that mean, when he comes into his office and sees your head stuck in the Pensieve that he'll have no idea what' you're seeing, as the recollection of it has been removed from his mind?
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Cho Chung

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Re: How does a witch/wizard know whether someone is "inside" their pensive?
« Reply #13 on: August 11, 2004, 07:00:11 PM »

Ha!  Great deductive logic, Mad!  I like it.  I suspect  that taking it out of their own heads and putting it into the pensieve is something like brainstorming, getting all your thoughts down on paper so as to see them better rather than totally emptying your mind completely of those thoughts.  Though I admit that getting them totally out of your head is how Dumbledore described it, even when he glanced at the pensieve, he remembered what he had put in there, so I think it's more like the getting-thoughts-on-paper thing.

I suspect we will see another pensieve or pensieve-like experience.  It is interesting that Harry has never been able to "come out" of someone's memory on his own.  It would be kind of interesting to know exactly how going into someone's memory really works, but I could see it being something we may never learn....
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Xan

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Re: How does a witch/wizard know whether someone is "inside" their pensive?
« Reply #14 on: August 18, 2004, 07:58:22 PM »

Getting caught in Snape's memories forever? His arms, maybe. But not his memories.

Err ... it's probably disturbing that I started grinning widely at that, yes?


Anyway. I think it should be possible to get yourself out of a Pensieve memory ... Harry just doesn't know how. Or something. Maybe you're supposed to just touch it as opposed to dunking your head in it..
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Deedra Malfoy

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Re: How does a witch/wizard know whether someone is "inside" their pensive?
« Reply #15 on: August 19, 2004, 05:10:15 PM »

Thanks for the humor, Xan.

Yeah, Harry's just stupid. 'Oh, look, I think I'll put my face  in this thing of goo.'

Leave it to this character to do something stupid.
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Susan Bones

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Re: How does a witch/wizard know whether someone is "inside" their pensive?
« Reply #16 on: August 19, 2004, 05:38:51 PM »

Quote
Also, if the wizard actually extracts the memory from his mind to put it in the Pensieve, does that mean, when he comes into his office and sees your head stuck in the Pensieve that he'll have no idea what' you're seeing, as the recollection of it has been removed from his mind?

Take another look at what Dumbledore said to Harry when Harry got stuck in his (Albus's) Pensieve.  Dumbledore seemed to "see" what Harry what seeing in the 'sieve, at the same time that Harry was seeing it.  As a matter of fact, Harry even "saw" the "current" Dumbledore sitting beside him in the "courtroom" inside the Pensieve.

Ach, it's too hard to explain.  Just look again.  Trust me.
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Heather

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Re: How does a witch/wizard know whether someone is "inside" their pensive?
« Reply #17 on: August 20, 2004, 06:14:45 PM »

Does the memory run on for ever or does it have a terminous?  In other words, maybe you come out of the pensive naturally at the conculsion of the memory.
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Deedra Malfoy

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Re: How does a witch/wizard know whether someone is "inside" their pensive?
« Reply #18 on: August 23, 2004, 04:44:42 PM »

Well, if you were trying to remember something, and it was in the pensieve, is what's in the pensieve a copy, or the entire memory?

Maybe, Heather, but you could keep it there for future reference?
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Sabriel Saraneth

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Re: How does a witch/wizard know whether someone is "inside" their pensive?
« Reply #19 on: August 25, 2004, 03:17:28 PM »

Quote
...the person is leaning over it with a blank expression
Do either of the books actually mention that? (I'm sorry, I don't have either GoF or OoP right now, and I can't remember offhand). I suppose that would make the most sense. I guess as I was reading, I just assumed that Harry's full physical form was actually transported into the Pensieve. Both Dumbledore and Snape had the pensieve in prominent places in their offices when Harry is in the rooms. Harry was supposed to be in their offices at the times when he was in fact in the pensieve. I can see where, upon enterering the room and not seeing Harry, both Dumbledore and Snape could reason that Harry had entered their pensieves. Arg, trying to put it in words is making my idea more of a stretch than I thought...I guess I never gave it a thought.

I've always had a lot of questions about the pensieve, many which have already been  asked. As mentioned before, if the memory is entirely removed from your head, how can you remember it if you were to view it in the pensieve? Apart from knowing that what is in your pensieve must be true, could you look in your pensieve (not remembering the events) and not beleive them? Is the memory in the pensieve bound to the person (ie, Harry goes into Snape's memory of his OWLs, yet can stray from Snape himself and hear and see things in the memory that Snape logically could not have)? What happens if someone tips over (or intentionally drains) your pensieve? And the questions go on and on...
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Re: How does a witch/wizard know whether someone is "inside" their pensive?
« Reply #20 on: November 08, 2004, 06:16:06 PM »

::grins:: Just a "thought" here...

I've read other books where it describes the feeling of another in a person's thoughts...an annoying itch that one just cannot reach.
What if the same principle is at work here?  Harry is intruding in another person's thoughts (Snape's or Dumbledore's).  While the thought is outside of them, it is still a part of them, and so that "annoying, unreachable itch" starts up in their mind...and since Dumbledore and Snape (who rules) are strong, experienced, accomplished wizards, they can sense this and understand what it implies.  Thus, they know that someone is in their pensieve.
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Cho Chung

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Re: How does a witch/wizard know whether someone is "inside" their pensive?
« Reply #21 on: November 08, 2004, 07:59:33 PM »

Er, nice idea, except that I really do think that it's only when they walk into the room that they know someone is in there.  I don't have my books with me, but I'm quite sure that's true.  Can someone back me up on that one?
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Re: How does a witch/wizard know whether someone is "inside" their pensive?
« Reply #22 on: November 12, 2004, 09:55:05 PM »

Well, Harry did seem to be in Snape's memories long enough that, if it were the case that he could sense him, the breaking of the connection would have been a lot faster, if that makes sense.
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