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Author Topic: The Marauder's Map  (Read 691 times)

Cerberus

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The Marauder's Map
« on: December 15, 2003, 05:47:44 AM »

In the PoA, Lupin sees Sirius and Peter on the map, which means that animaguses (i?) can be seen on the map.
So why didn't Harry see Rita on the map? OR, when Hermione asks the fake Moody if he saw her on the grounds, he said no. However, seeing that he knew his father was coming, he was obviously constantly looking at the map. Why didn't he see Rita?

Maybe it's just a mistake JKR forgot about...
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louise Black

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Re:The Marauder's Map
« Reply #1 on: December 15, 2003, 09:24:21 AM »

Yeah JKR must've forgotten about that, actually that's not the only thing, you know hoe Harry never saw thestrals before OoP, well how come? Even if he didn't see his parent's death he saw Quirell's.
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Re:The Marauder's Map
« Reply #2 on: December 15, 2003, 04:31:26 PM »

Maybe quirrell didnt have a soul it had been destroyed years ago, plus he inflicted quirrells death.
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Cerberus

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Re:The Marauder's Map
« Reply #3 on: December 15, 2003, 06:47:35 PM »

Well, the fact that Harry can't see the Thestrals is discussed here:
http://hogsmeade.us/forums/index.php?board=3;action=display;threadid=821

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Lauren Weasley

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Re:The Marauder's Map
« Reply #4 on: December 15, 2003, 09:18:38 PM »

however, he did pass out before Quirrel died so he didn't see that. Good call moving that thread of conversation along Cerberus.

Heather

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Re:The Marauder's Map
« Reply #5 on: January 28, 2004, 10:30:35 PM »

Here is a question that has been making my head swim.  Did the Marauder's Map show two Hermiones and two Harrys in PoA when Harry and Hermione used the time turner to go back to save Sirius and Buckbeak?
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Re:The Marauder's Map
« Reply #6 on: January 29, 2004, 11:35:35 PM »

I think it must have Heather. Were there two Marauder's Maps at that time too?

Heather

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Re:The Marauder's Map
« Reply #7 on: January 29, 2004, 11:49:34 PM »

I don't think there were two maps - if I am remembering correctly, Lupin had the map (so there should be only one).
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Lauren Weasley

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Re:The Marauder's Map
« Reply #8 on: January 30, 2004, 02:14:15 PM »

Ah, right you are.

Heather

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Re:The Marauder's Map
« Reply #9 on: February 06, 2004, 10:05:07 PM »

This is going to sound stupid, but it just hit me that Snape had to know what the map was when he took it from Harry in PoA.  He asked Lupin is Harry could have gotten the map directly from its makers - demonstrating he knew not only the nicknames for teh Marauders, but that they had made the map.  However, Snape did not know how to make it work.  Why would Snape not bust Lupin as one of the map's makers in front of Harry?
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Re:The Marauder's Map
« Reply #10 on: February 07, 2004, 06:16:14 AM »

Perhaps he knew from his school days that the Marauders were a prankster group, but never managed to figure out just who they were even though he suspected James and gang.

Or maybe he knew who they were but also knew that Lupin would just deny everything, and it would be Snape's word against Lupin's and Harry wouldn't believe a professor he hated over one he actually liked.
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Cho Chung

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Re:The Marauder's Map
« Reply #11 on: February 10, 2004, 01:23:06 PM »

Did he know who the mapmakers were?  Do we know for sure that he knew their little nicknames?  I mean, I read his line in PoA to mean that he knew that it was them, but could it have meant something else, too?
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Heather

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Re:The Marauder's Map
« Reply #12 on: February 10, 2004, 04:49:15 PM »

That is a good question.  I had assumed that Snape knew the nicknames (especially after the use of the nicknames in the Pensive scene in OoP), and Snape was more or less accusing Lupin of giving Harry the map.  That may have been an incorrect assumption.  You may be on to something that it suggests more.  Perhaps Moony, Wormtail, Padfoot, and Prongs were notorious, but nobody knew who they were.  I can see all sorts of mischief being assigned to the four, and the guys laughing at everyone trying to figure out who they are.
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Cho Chung

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Re: The Marauder's Map
« Reply #13 on: May 11, 2004, 09:29:15 AM »

I'm reviving this thread because of something Susan said in the Pop pop fizz fizz thread:

Quote
Didn't Wormtail show up on the Maurader's Map somewhere in PoA? 

If this was true (and I think it was), shouldn't Harry have been able to see Peter Pettigrew on the map the whole time?
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Heather

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Re: The Marauder's Map
« Reply #14 on: May 11, 2004, 03:02:42 PM »

Good point!  Take 5 points!

I would think he should have (as should have the Weasley twins before Harry).  Perhaps the map lists so many people that Harry only paid attention to the area around him.  Also, did Harry get the map before or after "Scabbers" disappeared?  I can't remember.  If it was after, perhaps PP was hiding in an area outside the map.  I am not satisified with my explanations; you pose a really good question!
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Re: The Marauder's Map
« Reply #15 on: May 16, 2004, 10:16:45 PM »

I think Harry got the map right after Scabbers had disappeared, which would make sense because Scabbers/Peter was hiding in the woods, and wouldnt have been seen. But that doesn't explain why Fred and George hadn't seen him all those years Ron and Scabbers had been at Hogwarts with F&G. Unless the twins didn't pay attention, or maybe didn't know about Peter Pettigrew?

*scratches head*
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Madeleine

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Re: The Marauder's Map
« Reply #16 on: May 21, 2004, 03:41:39 PM »

My brain is slightly fried, and I may not be remembering correctly, but when Harry first looks at the map, doesn't he only see two or three dots?  There are lots and lots more people at Hogwarts than that.  It wasn't as if the castle was deserted.  Maybe it only shows (or you only notice) people you know and/or are looking for.

If so, that is one heck of a complicated enchantment on that map.  James and the others must have been DANG GOOD!
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Cho Chung

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Re: The Marauder's Map
« Reply #17 on: May 21, 2004, 04:34:34 PM »

I thought that he saw tons of little dots, but I might be recalling incorrectly.
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Susan Bones

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Re: The Marauder's Map
« Reply #18 on: May 21, 2004, 05:24:42 PM »

Quote
But that doesn't explain why Fred and George hadn't seen him all those years Ron and Scabbers had been at Hogwarts with F&G. Unless the twins didn't pay attention, or maybe didn't know about Peter Pettigrew?

Maybe it didn't show him as Peter Pettigrew.  Maybe it showed him as "Scabbers", since he was in his Animagus form.

I dunno.....that's a good question.
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Marold

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Re: The Marauder's Map
« Reply #19 on: May 21, 2004, 07:15:16 PM »

but it showed him as P. Pettigrew when he came out from under the cloak when Ron went chasing after him.   I think it might show those in the area of the map, who might cause the most threat to someone.  Or it doesn't show the common rooms.

About the Rita thing, I don't think they ever used the map while Harry was doing the tournament.  So she wouldn't have shown up on it, also every time the beetle was around, Harry wasn't using the map so it wouldn't have shown her on there.
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Susan Bones

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Re: The Marauder's Map
« Reply #20 on: May 23, 2004, 04:04:24 PM »

On a whole other note:

HOW in the heck did Fred and George end up with the Map??
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Marold

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Re: The Marauder's Map
« Reply #21 on: May 23, 2004, 09:16:31 PM »

It explains in the third book.  They were in there first year, Filtch had caught them I think with dung bombs.  They were in his office, one of the two saw it, the other caused a diversion and the other took it.  How they knew how to work it, I don't know.  But we do know that it was taken from the makers of it while they were at Hogwarts.  At least that's what Moody told Harry at the end of book 3.
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Susan Bones

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Re: The Marauder's Map
« Reply #22 on: May 24, 2004, 02:48:02 PM »

Hmmm....sounds very suspicious to me.  You'd think anyone who could come up with as powerful a bit of magic as the Map could easily have thought up some scheme to get it back from Filch's office....I mean, come on!  Even Fred and George found out a way to get into Umbridge's office, and Filch isn't even a wizard!!
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Marold

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Re: The Marauder's Map
« Reply #23 on: May 24, 2004, 07:37:42 PM »

When did they get into Umbridges office?
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Cho Chung

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Re: The Marauder's Map
« Reply #24 on: May 24, 2004, 10:31:23 PM »

Well, actually, they didn't, did they?  They created a diversion so that Harry could get into her office.  Same thing, though.  They devised a way to get in.

I think the difference between Filch and Umbridge is that Filch is naturally paranoid and suspicious, whereas Umbridge was only caught up with herself and her own power.  If she felt like her authority was "needed" somewhere, she'd dash off without thinking twice about protecting her office.  Filch, howeer, would.  

It wouldn't surprise me if the Marauders never figured out a way to get it back.  Besides, they probably didn't need it at some point because they knew every secret corridor AND they had Peter Pettigrew who, in rat form, could spy on anyone and everyone without arousing suspicion.
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Heather

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Re: The Marauder's Map
« Reply #25 on: May 28, 2004, 12:02:52 PM »

Quote
About the Rita thing, I don't think they ever used the map while Harry was doing the tournament.  So she wouldn't have shown up on it, also every time the beetle was around, Harry wasn't using the map so it wouldn't have shown her on there.

Moody/Crouch had the map during most of the Rita business - remember he "borrowed" it from Harry after Harry saw Crouch in Snape's office.

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Susan Bones

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Re: The Marauder's Map
« Reply #26 on: June 08, 2004, 07:12:35 PM »

Makes me wonder what else Moody/Crouch was doing that we didn't hear about.....

With the PoA movie, I gotta revive this thread:

How did Fred and George know what incantation to use, in order to make the map work? 

And why didn't they ever notice that P. Pettigrew was sitting right there the whole time on the map, for 3 years?

For that matter, why was
Quote
Did he know who the mapmakers were?  Do we know for sure that he knew their little nicknames?  I mean, I read his line in PoA to mean that he knew that it was them, but could it have meant something else, too?

In Book 5, when Harry called out to Snape that "Padfoot" was in trouble (after Umbridge caught Harry in her office), Snape knew exactly who he was talking about. 
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Re: The Marauder's Map
« Reply #27 on: June 08, 2004, 09:07:10 PM »

Well...I can't answer them all, but...

Fred and George didn't know who Peter Pettigrew was. They'd probably never heard of him, so unless they have memorized the names of every kid at Hogwarts, they probably wouldn't look twice if they saw the name wandering around.

I think Snape knew perfectly well who the Marauders were. It seems obvious from both the movie and the book, plus he knew where thier hideout was, he knew about Lupin, etc. He probably didn't turn them in because I doubt anyone would listen to Snape. The younger Snape, that is. I get the impression he wasn't the most well-liked student. Plus, he'd probably rather take care of it himself, so to speak. By the time he was a teacher, well, it was old news.

As for how Fred and George knew the incantation. *thinks* I don't know, but they're pretty resourceful. Wait, wait, I've got it. Mrs. Norris heard the Marauders using the map one day (or if she'd not that old, some other cat who passed it on through the generations to her), then she told Filch the passwords. Wrote it out in the dust perhaps, if you don't buy them communicating. Filch then had the map in his office, having confiscated it. Trying to overcome his squibness, Filch would sit in his office trying to get the map to work for him, and Fred and George overheard him one day, stole the map later, and bam! they've got it.

How's that for out on a limb?
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Cho Chung

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Re: The Marauder's Map
« Reply #28 on: June 09, 2004, 01:12:11 PM »

//looks tentatively at the branch Tiamat is balancing on//

Pretty precarious to me. 

About the Padfoot thing, I assumed that by book 5, Snape would know the nicknames for sure because they're all working closely together in the OOP.  You know, heard Lupin call Sirius that or something.  Maybe that was an incorrect assumption.

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Susan Bones

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Re: The Marauder's Map
« Reply #29 on: June 09, 2004, 10:20:41 PM »

Quote
Fred and George didn't know who Peter Pettigrew was. They'd probably never heard of him

I dunno.......**scratches head**

The whole YKW fiasco, as well as Sirus getting put into Azkaban, was huge news back then, and you know how small communities are about news......it never dies.

I mean, every kid knew who Harry Potter was, even before meeting him.  I kinda took to the assumption that every kid knew who Sirius was, and who Peter Pettigrew was (the famous "brave friend, who stood up to the Potters' betrayer").  That sort of thing.

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Re: The Marauder's Map
« Reply #30 on: June 19, 2004, 10:58:32 PM »

Great discussion - 10 points each to Marold, Cho, Mad, Susan, and Tiamat
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Re: The Marauder's Map
« Reply #31 on: June 21, 2004, 08:27:22 AM »

Well, just 'cause "everyone knows" doesn't mean they care. Maybe the twins didn't pay attention. Or maybe ....

Okay, what really should happen is that, unless the animagus is in human form, the map shouldn't show them. That makes sense, except that, IIRC, it's disproved. (But I'm going on the movie here, which is not necessarily the most reliable of sources. Gotta reread POA!)

Another thought, seems like the people focus more on what's around them. Who cares that there's a Peter Pettigrew in the common room when there's a professor coming right at you?
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Re: The Marauder's Map
« Reply #32 on: June 21, 2004, 05:40:33 PM »

... and 10 points to Heather as well.

I agree, Ping, that for consistency's sake, that's how it should go.  But that's not how it went in the movie or in the book.  In the movie, Peter's name shows up and Harry sees it.  In the book, the map is how Lupin saw that Peter was with them when they came out of Hagrid's hut ..... HEY!!!  I just realized something.  In the book, Lupin said he saw three of them enter Hagrid's hut but four of them leave.  That must mean either that Peter's name didn't show up until after they stepped out of the hut, or that he just didn't notice Peter's name.  Given that H, R, and H were already in Hagrid's hut, I find it hard to believe that he just didn't notice the name of one of his allegedly dead school chums floating around in the same place.

Am I wrong about this or am I on to something here?
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Re: The Marauder's Map
« Reply #33 on: June 22, 2004, 10:28:55 PM »

Quote
I find it hard to believe that he just didn't notice the name of one of his allegedly dead school chums floating around in the same place

I concur.  I got the impression Lupin was going to use the map to see if Sirius entered the castle again (i.e., he would be checking it thoroughly and regularly).  I find it hard to believe that he would miss Peter Pettigrew on the map.  However, that assumes that Lupin was checking the map carefully.  Also, wouldn't Lupin have seen two Hermiones and two Harry Potters since at the time they were coming out of the hut, Harry and Hermione would have gone back in time to that spot as well?
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Re: The Marauder's Map
« Reply #34 on: June 23, 2004, 12:15:57 AM »

maybe they never really paid much attention to the name since he was supposedly dead, and so it wasn't really that much of an issue. Plus, while they were using the map they were more focused on where teachers are, and probably didn't pay  much attention to who was in their rooms and everything. As long as the coast was clear, it didn't really matter if Ron was in the bathroom or his bed or anything, and they probably  just were so used to filtering out in their minds everything except for the teachers, that they never noticed.
« Last Edit: June 23, 2004, 05:14:56 PM by Ro »
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Re: The Marauder's Map
« Reply #35 on: June 23, 2004, 12:51:02 PM »

Question: Is Hagrid's hut ON the map?  The Forbidden Forest isn't, right?  Nor Hogsmeade, nor the lake?  Am I right?  That would easily explain why Lupin saw three going and four coming, but didn't see Pettigrew in the hut.  Also, Peter, knowing about the map and possibly not knowing who had it (?) might have hid in Hagrids hut on purpose because it was safer than the Forest, and off the map.  Ya think?
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Re: The Marauder's Map
« Reply #36 on: June 23, 2004, 05:53:52 PM »

Hmmmm, possibly.  But did Peter know that the map had been "found" and in use?  If not, then I don't suspect it would work.
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Re: The Marauder's Map
« Reply #37 on: June 24, 2004, 01:20:06 PM »

He's spent 12 years as a rat because he didn't know when LV would show up again and whether or not his old friends would kill him.  I suspect he's of a rather paranoid/suspicious nature (especially since he became "as guilty as sin") and I wouldn't put it past him to hide at Hagrid's "just in case."  I mean, he didn't know the map was destroyed (which it wasn't) so he very well might suspect it was out there somewhere.  IMHO, anyway.
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Re: The Marauder's Map
« Reply #38 on: June 27, 2004, 04:02:27 PM »

a question was asked earlier as to how Fred and George were able to work the map. 

Who says they didn't ask nicely? unless the map wasn't cleaned off before Filtch got his hands on it.  If that's the case, then they could have asked how to clean it off.  We also know that Fred and George are very good at magic, they just don't apply themselves to the work done in school.  Who's to say they didn't put the incantations on the map themselves?
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Ro

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Re: The Marauder's Map
« Reply #39 on: June 27, 2004, 04:12:52 PM »

I think I remeber it saying (thought I'm not sure) that Filch didn't know how to use it, so Fred and George must have just figured out how to use it rather than put the incantations on there themselves.

Am I remebering correctly?
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Re: The Marauder's Map
« Reply #40 on: June 27, 2004, 07:09:35 PM »

Good discussion - 10 points to Ping, Ro, Cho, Mad, and Marold
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Re: The Marauder's Map
« Reply #41 on: June 27, 2004, 09:38:59 PM »

I'm sure if they didn't put their own cantations on it, then they were told how to use it.  I'm sure the map can tell who's using it, after all, they did make fun of Prof. Snape when he tried to use it.
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Ro

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Re: The Marauder's Map
« Reply #42 on: June 27, 2004, 09:48:41 PM »

oh! good point! I like that idea. That the map can tell who is trying to use it/for what purpose. Nice:)
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Cho Chung

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Re: The Marauder's Map
« Reply #43 on: June 30, 2004, 12:17:50 AM »

[10 to Heather, too]
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Re: The Marauder's Map
« Reply #44 on: November 11, 2004, 03:07:10 PM »

Earlier, it was said that Harry got the map right after "Scabbers" disappeared.....but if that's so, why would he have been wandering the halls and seen Pettigrew's name on it?

Also, why would the original four pranksters not put those locations on the map?  Wouldn't they be handy in the middle of the night?

 [scene]
 ::Padfoot and Prongs are running around outside::
{Padfoot} "We are far enough away from the lake, right?"
{Prongs} "Of course we are.  I know these grounds like the back of..." ::Prongs trips and falls right into the shallow end of the lake::

To me, a bit of a problem.

Lastly, about the multiple person issue.

When would Lupin have been looking at the Map?  First he was in the Shrieking Shack, then he was transformed into a werewolf.  At no point in there did he pull the map out.  So he couldn't have seen duplicates of Hermione and Harry.
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