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Author Topic: Horcruxes speculation thread  (Read 1456 times)

Ping

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Horcruxes speculation thread
« on: July 17, 2005, 07:02:12 PM »

Something of Godric Gryffindor's? Was I the only one who thought, not of the sword, but of his hat?
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Heather

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Re: Horcruxes speculation thread
« Reply #1 on: July 17, 2005, 07:04:20 PM »

That bothered me too.  I remembered the sorting hat belonging to GG.  That would be a wonderful horcrux.  Voldy could use his spirit to find his followers and sort them into Slytherin.
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Re: Horcruxes speculation thread
« Reply #2 on: July 18, 2005, 07:51:05 AM »

It would certainly explain why the hat continued to make Slytherin the most nasty bunch of people, and why those who went bad the first time around were all, or mostly, Slytherin, or at least those who were part of the school from that point on. This is something my friends have complained about, and this would certainly explain it.

And I remember Mr. Weasley saying to be leery of things you can't see the brains of, and the Hat has always made me think of that and wonder.

But why would it sing about being united and the school being in danger, if it really had Voldemort's soul in it? Just to continue pretending? I don't know!!! *vibrates* When does book seven come out????
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Christine

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Re: Horcruxes speculation thread
« Reply #3 on: July 18, 2005, 08:05:46 AM »

But how could YKW make the hat or the sword into a Horcrux with them under Dumbledore's watch?  Dumbledore would have been watching them like a hawk if he thought that Voldy might try and tamper with them.

It would help if we knew exactly how this Horcrux stuff worked.  If you could have someone else make it for you, I suppose he could have delegated the task to Snape.  But maybe you have to make it yourself.   
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Re: Horcruxes speculation thread
« Reply #4 on: July 18, 2005, 08:23:44 AM »

I would think you have to make it yourself, with your victim right near by. It does seem improbable, though.

Do you suppose that Harry could actually be a Horcrux? Accidentally, but if Voldy was trying to make one, and some of his soul got into Harry....
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Christine

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Re: Horcruxes speculation thread
« Reply #5 on: July 18, 2005, 08:28:18 AM »

Oh man, scary thought! *cover ears*  j/k

I suppose it is possible.  But didn't Dumbledore say that making a Horcrux of a living thing is dangerous?  I don't think he would have risked it.
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willow

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Re: Horcruxes speculation thread
« Reply #6 on: July 18, 2005, 08:53:42 AM »

i doub voldy would want his worst enemy having part of his soul, then again can you make a horcrux by accident. he had just killed two people so wouldn't his soul have split, actually i don't get the whole soul splitting thing. Voldy's killed more than seven people so won't he have more than seven horcruxes and doesn't that mean that every who kills... oh never mind, how confusing!
as for the sorting hat, it wanted harry to go to slytherin, was that voldy trying to turn harry to the badside?
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Christine

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Re: Horcruxes speculation thread
« Reply #7 on: July 18, 2005, 11:13:13 AM »

I don't think that when you kill someone your soul has to split and make a Horcrux.  The impression I got was that, when you kill someone, you have say a spell or something that makes your soul split to make a Horcrux.  Killing someone enables your soul to split into a Horcrux, but it doesn't mean you have to make one.  But I could very well be wrong.
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Ping

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Re: Horcruxes speculation thread
« Reply #8 on: July 18, 2005, 12:25:59 PM »

Christine, I think you're right. I would imagine that he had to prepare everything in advance, so that, when the time to kill came, the spell would be ready to go.

I don't know if it would be a complete Horcrux, since obviously it went wrong. But if he was planning on transfering some of his soul, and we know that Harry got some of his powers....
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Heather

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Re: Horcruxes speculation thread
« Reply #9 on: July 18, 2005, 03:57:13 PM »

Could Harry's scar be a Horcrux?
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Re: Horcruxes speculation thread
« Reply #10 on: July 18, 2005, 04:43:23 PM »

What about Snape , I mean i know it sounds farfetched but when harry first saw snape his scar hurt, could that be a sign?
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Ping

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Re: Horcruxes speculation thread
« Reply #11 on: July 18, 2005, 05:27:51 PM »

I think that was because Quirrel was talking to him and had his Voldy-infested head facing Harry.
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Heather

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Re: Horcruxes speculation thread
« Reply #12 on: July 18, 2005, 06:54:02 PM »

Voldy infested head . . . you make me laugh  :roll:

I don't thiink Voldy would have given part of his spirit to Snape (but that could be why he trusts him) because, as Slughorn said, it is not advisable to give part of your soul to something mobile/that can be killed/moved, etc.  The question about the scar was more along the lines of whether the scar could be an inadvertent horcrux.  I doubt it is, though, for the same reasons stated for Snape above.

I speculate that the cup we saw Mundugus selling is a hint as to where one of the horcruxes may be.  If R.A.B. is Reg. Black, then it would not be a stretch for the horcruxes from the slimy green pensive to be hidden at 12 Grimmauld Place (or stolen by Mundungus).  The fact that Harry saw Mundungus selling things from Sirius's house has to be more than just showing Mundungus is a horse's rear end.  I have a feeling it will tie into the search for the Horcruxes (grail, destruction of the ring = whoops, sorry, too many familiar themes coming together).
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Christine

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Re: Horcruxes speculation thread
« Reply #13 on: July 19, 2005, 11:50:24 AM »

But I thought that the cup Mundungus was selling had the Black family crest on it.  Didin't the Horcrux cup have a badger on it, for Helga Hufflepuff?
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Re: Horcruxes speculation thread
« Reply #14 on: July 19, 2005, 12:51:04 PM »

Yes, I think you're right. And was silver, not gold.
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Angelina Tonks

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Re: Horcruxes speculation thread
« Reply #15 on: July 19, 2005, 01:59:11 PM »

When horcruxes are destroyed, is the pat of the soul destroyed as well, or does it just float around? I know that sounds a bit strange, but when Voldemort tried to kill Harry and the spell was reversed on him, his soul still survived, didn't it? Does that mean the soul pieces fly back to Voldemort or something?
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Ping

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Re: Horcruxes speculation thread
« Reply #16 on: July 19, 2005, 03:41:32 PM »

The impression I got was that the piece of soul is destroyed when a Horcrux is destroyed. Voldemort didn't die because not all of his soul was gone, and he was only going to split it, not put all of it into whatever item he had set aside.

So the next question I have is this: If Harry is the Horcrux, can he survive and still get the bit of soul out of him?
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Re: Horcruxes speculation thread
« Reply #17 on: July 19, 2005, 04:29:34 PM »

I'm glad I am not the only one who thought one of the Horcruxes might be in Harry, though I think it unlikely. The only reason I see Rowling doing this would be so she ends the books with Harry dying. I still think nothing of Gryffindor has an Horcrux except maybe at Gryffindow Hollow. Most likely it is in somehting of Ravenclaw origin.

Here is my take on it.

Three have been destroyed. The Diary by HP, The Ring by AD and the Locket by the mysterious RAB

4 remain

One in Voldemort himself
One in Hupplepuf Goblet
One in Nagini (maybe? This was unclear to me first they say it might be there then it might not be?
Last one = unknown possibly a Ravenclaw Item or a Gryffindor item (The latter seems unlikely to me as Voldemort never had access to Dumbeldore's office where both the sword and the Hat reside.

Don't know if I got that right, the whole Horcruxes thing was rather confusing if you ask me.
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Re: Horcruxes speculation thread
« Reply #18 on: July 19, 2005, 05:18:14 PM »

Also, I'd say it's possible that the locket owned by R.A.B. has not been destroyed. If that is the case, Harry will have to find that one as well and make sure it's been eliminated.

I doubt Harry is a Horcrux, myself, but just to play Devil's Advocate here... it would explain why Snape and the other Death Eaters were ordered not to kill Harry. YKW has always insisted on killing Harry himself, and not allowing anyone else to touch him. While this could just be a matter of pride, it would also make sense if Harry was a Horcrux, because perhaps YKW can salvage that bit of his spirit if he himself kill Harry.

Can you imagine what the final battle would be like if that were the case? Say Harry had fought YKW, thinking that the only bit of soul left was inside his enemy. Finally, Harry deals a killing blow, but YKW doesn't die, and Harry realizes that the only way to kill him is to die himself. It would make sense, also, because it would be an almost perfect defense for YKW-- if Harry is the only one who can kill YKW, but Harry has to die before YKW can be killed, well, that's something of a Catch-22, isn't it?

Also, just to add more confusion to the mix--are we absolutely sure there are only seven Horcruxes? Yes, Tom Riddle expressed his interest in having seven, but that doesn't mean he stuck to that plan.
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Heather

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Re: Horcruxes speculation thread
« Reply #19 on: July 19, 2005, 08:07:31 PM »

Would the Riddle House be too much a stretch to be a Horcrux?
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Re: Horcruxes speculation thread
« Reply #20 on: July 20, 2005, 10:59:09 AM »

I don't know, I would find it to be almost too odd for the OoP to be in the Grimmauld House and not sense, somehow, how much of Voldemort really lived in it (assuming it really was a soul-bearing object).  It is possible, but for some reason I picture the horcruxes being smaller, more treasurable items.  However I know as much about horcruxes as the rest of us, maybe even less as I was reading so fast from excitement that I may have missed something... *mental note to re-read book ASAP*

I just don't get the feeling that any powerful wizard who isn't oblivious could have been very close to one of LV's horcruxes and not felt it.  Or has there been an instance in which this has happened? That I have forggotten and would prove my theory wrong? I'm not sure... Surely though Dumbledore would have sensed LV's mark on the Grimmauld Place estate, seeing as how Dumbledore could sense the presence of magic in the cave with Harry.  Do you agree?
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Re: Horcruxes speculation thread
« Reply #21 on: July 20, 2005, 11:10:25 AM »

Well, he didn't, as far as we know, sense anything sinister about the diary's presence in his school, where it seemed his power base was much stronger. So I think it might be something that, if you don't know it's there, or you don't know to look for it, you won't be able to find it.
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Christine

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Re: Horcruxes speculation thread
« Reply #22 on: July 20, 2005, 11:29:23 AM »

But also, the diary was never in very close proximity to Dumbledore.  Hogwarts is a big place.

I think Sirius might be just a little confused on something.  Heather was talking about the possibility of the Riddle house being a Horcrux.  The Riddle house was Voldemort's father's house, not Grimmauld Place, which was Sirius' house.  But I do agree, a house seems too big to be a Horcrux.

So the next question I have is this: If Harry is the Horcrux, can he survive and still get the bit of soul out of him?

I don't see how it would be possible for Harry to survive if he is indeed a Horcrux.  All the other Horcruxes had to be destroyed to get rid of Voldy's soul.  But it may be different with Harry, since he also has his own soul; the other Horcruxes were just inanimate objects.
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Re: Horcruxes speculation thread
« Reply #23 on: July 20, 2005, 12:01:21 PM »

Well, the ring wasn't destroyed. It had a crack, but it wasn't totally destroyed. Maybe his scar will just get bigger?

Oh, and it's time for some points!

5 points to Angelina, Sirius, ARR, and Shelly.
10 points to Heather, Christine, and Willow. :)
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Re: Horcruxes speculation thread
« Reply #24 on: July 20, 2005, 12:45:47 PM »

Wasn't there a locket in the Black house? It's been so long since I've read OotP but I thought I had remembered reading something about a locket that if put around the neck it would posses your soul. 

So if the speculation is true that R.A.B was Sirius's brother then it would make sense that he placed the item in the Black home for safe keeping.  Who would think to check there?
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Christine

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Re: Horcruxes speculation thread
« Reply #25 on: July 20, 2005, 12:52:53 PM »

Hmm... I don't remember anything about a locket from OotP, but I forget things easily.  I'll have to look that up.

Well, the ring wasn't destroyed. It had a crack, but it wasn't totally destroyed.

Yes, but at the end of Chapter 13 Harry notices that the ring isn't in Dumbledore's office anymore.  Couldn't he have totally destroyed the ring, and that's why it was gone? 
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Re: Horcruxes speculation thread
« Reply #26 on: July 20, 2005, 12:55:58 PM »

I thought Dumbledore had said the ring was destroyed.
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Re: Horcruxes speculation thread
« Reply #27 on: July 20, 2005, 01:02:17 PM »

He did say that, but I think that what Ping was getting at was that maybe the Horcruxes didn't have to be totally destroyed to get the piece of the soul out, just damaged.  If they have to be completely destroyed, and Harry is a Horcrux, then it isn't very good for him, is it?
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Re: Horcruxes speculation thread
« Reply #28 on: July 20, 2005, 03:49:32 PM »

Thanks for correcting me, Christine. Not entirely sure how I messed that up... Something I tend to do more and more frequently after staying up late reading HP books.  Last night was especially late  :)

I think it's quite interesting, the idea of Harry himself being a Horcrux.  I believe, however, that according to the Prophecy (assuming we are still following it.... after Dumbledore's 20 minute lecture on its validity...), Harry will be able to live, even after Voldemort dies.  Which would mean that to destroy a Horcrux (assuming Harry IS one), the object does not have to be COMPELTELY destoryed.  Perhaps something painful in which Harry would cleanse his soul of Voldemort totally, and lose some of his particularly mysterious talents (parsletongue...), but all in all ending up rid of Voldemort.  I can see JK doing this, in order for Harry to rid himself of evil, he must endure some pain, make a full committment to his task, and be willing to sacrafice some talents...
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Re: Horcruxes speculation thread
« Reply #29 on: July 20, 2005, 11:42:30 PM »

Incidentally, there was a brief mention of a locket in OotP--while they were cleaning out a cabinet, it mentions in passing "A heavy locket that none of them could open," which lends new power to the Regulus Black theory--if he had stolen the original locket, then Grimmauld Place would have been an ideal location to keep it.
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