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Author Topic: Snape  (Read 747 times)

Ping

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Re: Snape
« Reply #30 on: August 17, 2005, 04:39:55 PM »

It's so hard to know! We so rarely see Snape through anyone but Harry's biased eyes, which makes it hard to judge. We know the vision Snape hid. We know it was an embarrassing one for Snape, but then again, it also made James look bad to Harry, so maybe he hid it because he didn't want Harry to know that (for whatever reason). He got angry because Harry did something he wasn't supposed to, perhaps. We just don't have enough information!
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Heather

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Re: Snape
« Reply #31 on: August 20, 2005, 10:21:05 PM »

What, then, could be the thing that made Dumbledore trust Snape?
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Re: Snape
« Reply #32 on: August 31, 2005, 11:35:01 AM »

I've just finished re-reading Goblet of Fire (for the 5th or 6th time, I think) and what Voldermort said after he was reborn made a very strong impression on me now that I have finished reading HBP. This is what he said:

"And here we have six missing Death Eaters...three dead in my service.  One, too cowardly to return...he will pay. One, who I believe has left me forever...he will be killed, of course...and one, who remains my most faithful servant, and who has already re-entered my service."

The one who is too cowardly to return would be Karkaroff, right? The one who's his most faithful servant would be Barty Crouch Jr so the one whom he believes has left him forever would have to be Snape. Does that mean that Snape isn't a double-agent if Voldermort believes that he has left him forever?

What do you all think?
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Re: Snape
« Reply #33 on: August 31, 2005, 01:43:19 PM »

I'm still going to believe Snape to be good.  Course I've been wrong on so many things with the books so I'm probably wrong on this too, but I'm alright with being wrong.  You don't learn anything from being right all the time.
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Re: Snape
« Reply #34 on: August 31, 2005, 08:15:41 PM »

It seems like pretty much everything points to Snape being good.  As much as I want a good reason to hate his guts, I believe that he is loyal to the Order.  The only thing that doesn't fit is McGonagall.  She seemed genuinely shocked that Snape murdered Dumbledore.  With her importance to the Order, wouldn't Snape or Dumbledore have informed her of their plan?  Or did she know, and she's she just a good actor?
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Re: Snape
« Reply #35 on: August 31, 2005, 10:06:26 PM »

I haven't decided whether Snape is good or evil yet... I'm leaning toward "good," but I can see the logic of both sides.

I thought it was explained in book six that at the time of the graveyard scene YKW thought Snape had left, but he came back to the graveyard two hours later, so YKW forgave him.

As for McGonagall, I bet she wasn't told of Snape and Dumbledore's plans. I would think that they would need to keep it totally secret because members of the Order might have tried to interfere with Dumbledore's plans.
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Re: Snape
« Reply #36 on: September 03, 2005, 03:37:38 PM »

But what good would it do to have Snape as a spy if he couldn't work with the Order?  He can't fight Voldemort alone, and the Order probably won't trust him now. 
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Re: Snape
« Reply #37 on: September 03, 2005, 08:15:08 PM »

That's totally true. I can't even imagine what would happen if Snape tried to go back to the Order now and convince them that he'd been on their side the whole time, not unless Dumbledore left a note or something. I don't know. I really hope Snape is good, but what you're saying adds a whole other dimension to the argument: now that Snape has killed Dumbledore, there's nothing else he can do to help the Order and stay alive. You'd think that if Snape and Dumbledore had planned this whole thing, they wouldn't have overlooked that fairly huge obstacle.
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Madeleine

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Re: Snape
« Reply #38 on: September 04, 2005, 01:14:30 AM »

I'm still hoping one of the first occurences in book 7 is the appearance of Dumbledore's will.
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Heather

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Re: Snape
« Reply #39 on: October 21, 2005, 08:32:04 PM »

Narcissa's need/pleading with Snape at the start of the last book, as well as Bella's disdain for Snape, make me wonder what backsotry/history among the trio might exist.  It seems there is some reason, in particular, that Narcissa trusts Snape with her greatest treasure, her son.  There all seems to be a reason Bella does not trust him.  Any thoughts on what that could be.
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Ping

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Re: Snape
« Reply #40 on: October 21, 2005, 08:47:36 PM »

Well, over the last few years, Snape has favored Draco, which would probably have been reported to Narcissa. I don't know if that's really enough reason for the trust, though. As for Bella, I think a lot of it is that she spent so long suffering, and really it was all for naught, because Snape, who didn't, seems to be in with Voldy better. I think it's at least somewhat jealousy for that. And maybe anger that her sister trusts him and not her.

Though I wonder a bit if there weren't some sort of romantic relationship between Snape and Cissy.
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Heather

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Re: Snape
« Reply #41 on: October 22, 2005, 11:21:36 AM »

I got that feeling too.  I wondered if there was an unrequited love that Snape had for Cissy which she was capitalizing upon to protect her son.  That would explain why she would trust Snape - she would know he wouldn't do anything to hurt her.

Interesting thought that Snape has been a protector of children in several of the books (in book 1 - protected Harry from Quirrel/Voldy), in book 3 - tried to protect the kids in the Shrieking Shack from Sirius (no threat - but, arguably, he thought there might be one, and tried to protect the kids), book 5 - tried to teach Harry Occul. to protect him from Voldy, book 6 - protects Draco). 
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Re: Snape
« Reply #42 on: October 22, 2005, 03:56:27 PM »

They are also, IIRC, cousins, they were probably in Slytherin together, worked together, that sort of thing. I really liked seeing that there were other characters who had histories together, not just the Mauraders and Lily sort of thing. :)

One of the most striking images from the movie version of PoA was when Snape puts himself between the kids and the werewolf. That seemed to be a visualization of his protective role, and even though he doesn't seem to be very good at it with regards to Harry, it's something he seems to have an interest in.
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Heather

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Re: Snape
« Reply #43 on: December 04, 2005, 10:02:59 PM »

This has bothered me after reading the last book - Assuming Snape remained in the fold with the Death Eaters/YKW, shouldn't he have known Sirius was not a Death Eater?  Snape seemed to assume the "story" surrounding Sirius's murder of Wormtail.  Any thoughts?
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Re: Snape
« Reply #44 on: December 05, 2005, 05:07:05 AM »

If he knew Sirius wasn't a death eater, could we perhaps also assume that he knew that Peter had betrayed the Potters, and therefore that Sirius would have a reason to kill Pettigrew?  Which doesn't seem to be the case.

From the way the books have described it, it seems like no one but Voldemort knew who all the death eaters were, so maybe Snape didn't know whether or not Sirius was a DE.

Or else he has to pretend to think that Sirius is a DE in order to not show his own role in events.

Or maybe I should get back to sleep like I've been trying to do for an hour. :)
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Susan Bones

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Re: Snape
« Reply #45 on: January 14, 2006, 06:43:49 PM »

Okay, so we know McGonagall was shocked about the turn of events with regards to Dumbledore and Snape.  Which brings up the question of how Snape could work with the order afterwards -- they'd be after his blood, now, right?

Only three explanations seem clear to me, if Snape is truly working for "the good side".  One:  something big, really big, is going to happen which does not require the Order at all; the Order is no longer necessary so it doesn't matter if they are kept in the dark.

Two:  Dumbledore will return in the first chapter of Book 7 and explain everything;

Three:  Someone else in the Order has been kept informed of what's going on (the phony death, Snape's apparent betrayal, etc.).

Is there any evidence that Number Three could be true?  Does anyone else in the Order act differently toward Snape in HBP?

Off to re-read......
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Re: Snape
« Reply #46 on: January 16, 2006, 10:15:15 AM »

Let us know what you find out! I find (3) to be tantalizing, though I think (1) is more probable. Except...what if Snape has a portrait of Dumbledore hidden somewhere? Then he could tell the portrait, who could feed the info to McGonagall.

*sigh* I still want the chocolate frog cards to be important!
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Re: Snape
« Reply #47 on: February 05, 2006, 09:47:08 PM »

It seems like pretty much everything points to Snape being good.  As much as I want a good reason to hate his guts, I believe that he is loyal to the Order.  The only thing that doesn't fit is McGonagall.  She seemed genuinely shocked that Snape murdered Dumbledore.  With her importance to the Order, wouldn't Snape or Dumbledore have informed her of their plan?  Or did she know, and she's she just a good actor?

It totally made sense to me that McGonagall would have no idea what was going on.  I think she was probably left out of a lot of things the Order did because she has to stay "untainted" in order to run the school.  If she was too involved, then her attention would be split, and no one would be left to lead Hogwarts. 
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Carolyn

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Re: Snape
« Reply #48 on: February 05, 2006, 09:52:51 PM »

Okay, so we know McGonagall was shocked about the turn of events with regards to Dumbledore and Snape.  Which brings up the question of how Snape could work with the order afterwards -- they'd be after his blood, now, right?

Only three explanations seem clear to me, if Snape is truly working for "the good side".  One:  something big, really big, is going to happen which does not require the Order at all; the Order is no longer necessary so it doesn't matter if they are kept in the dark.

Now *that* is a fascinating question. 

Perhaps because we see everything from Harry's POV, and so little is shared with him, but the Order's always seemed like a somewhat rinky dink organization to me, with Dumbledore pulling all the strings and fully sharing with no one.  An organization with a lot of heart and courage, but without Dumbledore, not a whole lot of brains or leadership. Now, now, I'm not saying the members are stupid, but no one seems to have any kind of brilliance that I think Voldemort has.
This leads me to wonder if Dumbledore had some sort of "partner" or source (for lack of better terms) that he wasn't sharing with the Order, and this individual has a vested interest in staying somewhat neutral or in not coming out in favor of one side over the other. 
We've heard of characters who are neutral and characters that members of the Order and Deatheaters are trying to sway, so why not one more?
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Carolyn

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Re: Snape
« Reply #49 on: February 23, 2006, 10:34:33 PM »

Reading my favorite, Goblet of Fire, and remember the very end when Barty Crouch Jr is revealing himself to Harry? (p. 679) And he's got that foe glass and Harry is watching it, knowing that Barty's foes are coming to save him?
Well, in the glass, are Dumbledore, McGonnagall, and SNAPE.  If Snape was a death eater with loyalties to Voldemort, I don't think he'd be in the glass. So there's still hope for him turning out to be Dumbledore's man after all :)
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Cho Chung

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Re: Snape
« Reply #50 on: February 27, 2006, 09:14:08 AM »

Erm, correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought the foe glass didn't specifically reveal foes so much as it just showed you who was coming around the corner so that if they were foes, you could be prepared. 

I thought it was the sneakoscope that specifically detected people who were, well, being sneaky.  Is my memory faulty on this one?

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Re: Snape
« Reply #51 on: April 10, 2006, 03:40:08 PM »

Quote
Is my memory faulty on this one?

I think so. I'm pretty sure the Foeglass showed how close your enemies were to you. Otherwise he could have just had a regular mirror. :D
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