Hogsmeade

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Closed.

Pages: [1] 2  All   Go Down

Author Topic: To wand or not to wand  (Read 951 times)

Heather

  • Prefect
  • Hufflepuff
  • Seventh-year
  • *******
  • Karma: +16/-0
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2138
  • Even a broken watch is correct twice a day.
    • View Profile
To wand or not to wand
« on: October 01, 2003, 07:39:05 PM »

On the subject of wands (I apologize if this has been discussed elsewhere) - the impression I got from the book was that wizards need their wands to perform magic (i.e. when Tom took Harry's wand in the CoS leaving Harry unable to perform spells), however, there have been times that magic was performed without a wand - like when Harry made the glass disappear to set the snake loose at the zoo in Book 1.  I wonder if a wizard can progress to a point where he/she may not need a wand, or if a wand simply channels magical powers.  Does anyone have an answer?
« Last Edit: October 02, 2003, 11:59:30 AM by Ping »
Logged
Even a broken watch is correct twice a day.

Cho Chung

  • Defense Against the Dark Arts Professor and Gryffindor Prefect
  • Administrator
  • Seventh-year
  • *****
  • Karma: +10/-2
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3011
  • Have you charmed your prefect today? :D
    • View Profile
Re:Wands -- to bend or not to bend
« Reply #1 on: October 01, 2003, 11:35:10 PM »

I suspect you are right.  Isn't it true that Dumbledore performs some simple spells by just waving his hand in the air?  I seem to recall that somewhere.  
Logged
Birthdays are great.  Everyone should have them.

Ping

  • Minister of Magic
  • Administrator
  • Seventh-year
  • *****
  • Karma: +16/-1
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2840
    • View Profile
    • Ping's Notes
Re:Wands -- to bend or not to bend
« Reply #2 on: October 02, 2003, 11:58:32 AM »

I don't know for sure, Cho. I don't recall anything off the top of my head, but I don't have my books handy.

I'd wondered about this, too, though. I think that the wand might be a focus and an enhancer for the magic. That's why it's important that it's customized to the wizard, because it has to match their inherent magical talents. Ollivander describes some of the wands as being very good for a certain kind of magic. Doing magic without a wand is difficult to control, it would seem. The things Harry does are things he doesn't seem to have any control over. In order to gain control, the magic has to pass through a conduit, as it were. Like a radio picking up waves and translating them into sound we can hear, as it were. (A bad analogy, I fear, but you see what I mean, right?)
Logged
Friends don't let friends fly drunk.

One Ping Only

Cho Chung

  • Defense Against the Dark Arts Professor and Gryffindor Prefect
  • Administrator
  • Seventh-year
  • *****
  • Karma: +10/-2
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3011
  • Have you charmed your prefect today? :D
    • View Profile
Re:To wand or not to wand
« Reply #3 on: October 02, 2003, 02:36:27 PM »

I do indeed know what you mean.  I am not where my books are at the moment, so I can't look up what I'm thinking about, but what you're saying would then fit into the theory that Heather advanced, and would also explain why the more powerful wizards don't always need a wand to perform magic.

Oh!  I know!  When Dumbledore claps his hands to change the decorations in the Great Hall at the end of whichever book(s) that happens in.  There's an example.  It's not the one I'm thinking of, but it works regardless.
Logged
Birthdays are great.  Everyone should have them.

zeus

  • Fifth year
  • Hufflepuff
  • Fifth-year
  • *****
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 602
  • Yo
    • View Profile
Re:To wand or not to wand
« Reply #4 on: October 04, 2003, 04:54:46 PM »

I think it's just a wand is an energy saving magic thing. Maybe if you didn't have the wand, you'd be able to do any spell but it'd take a whole lot of concentration. It's like a wrench. The longer your hand is from the bolt, the less it takes to turn. It's the use of force. If you put a doorknob right next to the hinge, it would be harder to open than if you put as far away from the hinge as humanly possible.
Logged

AHD

  • Hufflepuff
  • Third-year Student
  • ***
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 150
    • View Profile
Re:To wand or not to wand
« Reply #5 on: October 05, 2003, 09:32:18 AM »

Good analogy Zeus - *charms him*

While I think eventually strong wizards might be able to perform some spells without the use of a wand, the wand is the perfect tool for the job.  (If you could 'hammer' a nail into wood without a hammer, would you choose to do it? - no because it would be faster and easier to just use the hammer.)
« Last Edit: October 05, 2003, 09:33:15 AM by AHD »
Logged

Marold

  • Slytherin
  • Sixth-year
  • ******
  • Karma: +2/-0
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 953
  • We are better than you
    • View Profile
Re:To wand or not to wand
« Reply #6 on: October 05, 2003, 08:14:38 PM »

or you could use an aircompressor.  ;D

Sorry, had to throw that one in.
Logged
Over Grown Teenagerhttp://players.gamernic.com/Guinastasia/mydolls.html

SeaShelly3

  • Keeper of the Keys and Grounds and Rogue Wizard
  • Prefect
  • Seventh-year
  • *****
  • Karma: +10/-0
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2081
  • Give me ambiguity or give me something else.
    • View Profile
    • Just a LiveJournal...
Re:To wand or not to wand
« Reply #7 on: October 05, 2003, 10:14:50 PM »

It seems to me that when you get a cetain mastery of a spell, that it would be easier to do, with or without a wand. But, I also think it depends on the spell. For example, lumos is designed to make the end of your wand light up, so I don't think it's possible to do without a wand. Something like expecto patronum seems unlikely to be possible without a wand as well. However, I think it is possible to wingardium leviosa or accio or alohomora without a wand. Things like that. It just depends on how "magical" you are, as vague as that is.
Logged
The quantity of consonants in the English language is constant. If omitted in one place, they turn up in another. When a Bostonian "pahks" his "cah," the lost r's migrate southwest, causing a Texan to "warsh" his car and invest in "erl wells."

Heather

  • Prefect
  • Hufflepuff
  • Seventh-year
  • *******
  • Karma: +16/-0
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2138
  • Even a broken watch is correct twice a day.
    • View Profile
Re:To wand or not to wand
« Reply #8 on: November 25, 2003, 08:17:09 PM »

Are wands necessary to apparate?
Logged
Even a broken watch is correct twice a day.

SeaShelly3

  • Keeper of the Keys and Grounds and Rogue Wizard
  • Prefect
  • Seventh-year
  • *****
  • Karma: +10/-0
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2081
  • Give me ambiguity or give me something else.
    • View Profile
    • Just a LiveJournal...
Re:To wand or not to wand
« Reply #9 on: November 26, 2003, 12:31:51 AM »

Good question... you get your apparition license at 17, which is the same time you're allowed to use your wand outside school. I always assumed you didn't need it, but I could be wrong. I can't think of any examples to support either way right now... does anyone know?
Logged
The quantity of consonants in the English language is constant. If omitted in one place, they turn up in another. When a Bostonian "pahks" his "cah," the lost r's migrate southwest, causing a Texan to "warsh" his car and invest in "erl wells."

Lauren Weasley

  • Graduate, Resident Artist and Quidditch Team Co-Captain
  • Gryffindor
  • Graduate
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3357
  • All must bow before the penguin!
    • View Profile
    • Patronus
Re:To wand or not to wand
« Reply #10 on: November 30, 2003, 03:44:58 PM »

I would say that since magic is an inherent ability, a wand is not absolutely necessary, but as others have supposed, is excellent for channeling your magic directly. I don't think that conjuring a Patronus would be any different that performing other spells without a wand. It's dependent on the strength of your happy memory, so I imagine it could materialize directly from a person, if they didn't have their wand.

Tiamat

  • Slytherin
  • Prefect
  • Sixth-year
  • *****
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 999
  • Voldy-chan!!
    • View Profile
    • The inside of my head at fanfiction.net...because I'm too lazy to make a real site.
Re:To wand or not to wand
« Reply #11 on: November 30, 2003, 03:48:47 PM »

I've always thought that... I mean, obviously Harry made the glass disappear in front of the snake without a wand, so...people must be able to work without it.

It should be a new class at Hogwarts. They could call it Wand-Users Anonymous....where slightly embarassed wizards and witches try to get over thier wand-dependencies.
Logged
If you're going to be evil, do it right.

Heather

  • Prefect
  • Hufflepuff
  • Seventh-year
  • *******
  • Karma: +16/-0
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2138
  • Even a broken watch is correct twice a day.
    • View Profile
Re:To wand or not to wand
« Reply #12 on: January 30, 2004, 08:15:29 PM »

This may have been discussed previously (so I apologize if it is redundant), but I have two wand questions

1.    When the animagi transform into animals, what happens to their wands?

2.     How did Voldemort get his wand back after his curse on Harry rebounded and he became non-corporial?
Logged
Even a broken watch is correct twice a day.

Ping

  • Minister of Magic
  • Administrator
  • Seventh-year
  • *****
  • Karma: +16/-1
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2840
    • View Profile
    • Ping's Notes
Re:To wand or not to wand
« Reply #13 on: February 04, 2004, 09:54:21 AM »

Heather--I assume it goes to the same place as their clothes. ;)

The second is a good question. Perhaps ... uh... I don't know.
Logged
Friends don't let friends fly drunk.

One Ping Only

Cho Chung

  • Defense Against the Dark Arts Professor and Gryffindor Prefect
  • Administrator
  • Seventh-year
  • *****
  • Karma: +10/-2
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3011
  • Have you charmed your prefect today? :D
    • View Profile
Re:To wand or not to wand
« Reply #14 on: February 04, 2004, 02:35:40 PM »

That is really an excellent question.  Someone would have to have grabbed his wand from the Potters' house (or wherever LV killed James and Lily) and held it for him until he returned, but Wormtail is the only one who saw him before he returned to his own body, unless you count Quirrell, and LV didn't have a wand, then.

5 points, Heather, for catching that.
Logged
Birthdays are great.  Everyone should have them.

Ping

  • Minister of Magic
  • Administrator
  • Seventh-year
  • *****
  • Karma: +16/-1
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2840
    • View Profile
    • Ping's Notes
Re:To wand or not to wand
« Reply #15 on: February 04, 2004, 02:56:21 PM »

Ooo, ooo! Maybe it was Barty Crouch Jr? His father would have had access to stuff like that. I'm assuming it would have been taken and kept as evidence, ne? Perhaps he was able to sneak out and get it once he started breaking the spell?
Logged
Friends don't let friends fly drunk.

One Ping Only

Permlessgirl

  • Ravenclaw
  • Prefect
  • Fourth-year Student
  • *****
  • Karma: +3/-0
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 226
  • "S'up Figgy?"
    • View Profile
Re:To wand or not to wand
« Reply #16 on: February 04, 2004, 10:24:25 PM »

Not to jump off that idea, but in reference to apparation - has Hagrid ever apparated that we've heard about? He no longer has his wand does he? I've always assumed he lost it along with the privelege to perform magic. Although, I suppose he could have used the umbrella  :-\
Logged
"Just because you've got the emotional range of a teaspoon doesn't mean we all have,"

Cho Chung

  • Defense Against the Dark Arts Professor and Gryffindor Prefect
  • Administrator
  • Seventh-year
  • *****
  • Karma: +10/-2
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3011
  • Have you charmed your prefect today? :D
    • View Profile
Re:To wand or not to wand
« Reply #17 on: February 05, 2004, 09:51:13 AM »

Well, I don't know that we've "seen" him apparate, but in book 1 after he took Harry shopping in Diagon Alley and sends him off back home, Harry turns to say something to him (or something like that) and he's gone.  It sure makes it seem like he can apparate, but we've never heard him do it.  

Also, he uses the motorcycle to transport baby Harry to the Dursleys, which makes me think either he can't or he really shouldn't.  

I get the impression, however, that you don't need a wand to apparate, especially since Percy would just apparate downstairs for breakfast and stuff like that.
Logged
Birthdays are great.  Everyone should have them.

Heather

  • Prefect
  • Hufflepuff
  • Seventh-year
  • *******
  • Karma: +16/-0
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2138
  • Even a broken watch is correct twice a day.
    • View Profile
Re:To wand or not to wand
« Reply #18 on: February 06, 2004, 09:52:56 PM »

I agree with Cho - I don't think a wand is necessary to apparate.  I concur with the discussion earlier in this thread that the wand is a way to concentrate or focus magic, but that magic may still be performed without a wand.

However, thinking about Hagrid's wand/umbrella has raised another question for me.  The MoM broke Hagrid's wand when they thought he was responsible for letting lose the terror that killed Myrtle.  This suggested to me that in order to own and use a wand, the wizard would have to graduate from a wizarding school.  Does anyone else get the same feeling?  The reason I ask is that I wonder if uneducated wizards are allowed wands.


As far as the Voledmort wand issue . . . (scurries off to start new thread)
Logged
Even a broken watch is correct twice a day.

Susan Bones

  • Special Reporter For The Wizengamot
  • Slytherin
  • Seventh-year
  • *******
  • Karma: +9/-0
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1742
  • Love few. Hate many. Stack the rest in the cellar.
    • View Profile
    • Look for Susan Bones as meepmeep on IrCQ Chat:  Trivia!
Re: To wand or not to wand
« Reply #19 on: May 05, 2004, 06:45:36 PM »

Quote
It sure makes it seem like he can apparate, but we've never heard him do it.

Hmmm....but I believe it takes a powerful brand of magic to do that, as even powerful beings (like house-elves) make noises when they Apparate/Disapparate.  I say powerful only because Dumbledore does it silently....

Maybe Hagrid just moves really fast?  But that doesn't sound like JKR.....

**wanders away to start new thread**

One quick question:  In Book 5, Harry drops his wand, but later finds it by shouting "Lumos!" and the wand lights up, even though he's not touching it.  Is that because it was Harry's wand and it recognized Harry's voice, or do all wands do that no matter who says it, or what?
Logged

Special Reporter for the Wizengamot

Heather

  • Prefect
  • Hufflepuff
  • Seventh-year
  • *******
  • Karma: +16/-0
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2138
  • Even a broken watch is correct twice a day.
    • View Profile
Re: To wand or not to wand
« Reply #20 on: May 05, 2004, 08:04:40 PM »

Quote
even though he's not touching it

Good find - I had not noticed that!  Take 5 points.  Perhaps that could explain the question as to how Voledmort got his wand after Wormtail found him (if he could "call" his wand or have it respond to his commands remotely.

Quote
Is that because it was Harry's wand and it recognized Harry's voice, or do all wands do that no matter who says it, or what?

I imagine it is wizard specific - remember what Olivander said - the wand chooses the wizard.
Logged
Even a broken watch is correct twice a day.

amandahilary

  • Guest
Re:Wands -- to bend or not to bend
« Reply #21 on: June 05, 2004, 08:14:00 PM »

I suspect you are right.  Isn't it true that Dumbledore performs some simple spells by just waving his hand in the air?  I seem to recall that somewhere.  
I totally agree with you i mean in the first movie there was a swich in plans of who won the house cup so all he did was clap his hands and wave there must be some some traveling its like where your wand and you are one
 
Logged

Angelina Tonks

  • Hufflepuff
  • Sixth-year
  • ******
  • Karma: +2/-0
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 896
  • :D
    • View Profile
Re: To wand or not to wand
« Reply #22 on: June 06, 2004, 05:43:38 AM »

I've had a question that's been nagging me: How come Wormtail needs a wand to transform into his rat form, and other people (eg Sirius because he didn't have a wand in Azkaban when he escaped) can just become their animal form by will power?
Maybe because Wormtail wasn't as bright as the others that he had to use a wand to help him?
Logged
The world is full of bad people - it's just some who are on opposite sides.
The moving tree will get you!

Tiamat

  • Slytherin
  • Prefect
  • Sixth-year
  • *****
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 999
  • Voldy-chan!!
    • View Profile
    • The inside of my head at fanfiction.net...because I'm too lazy to make a real site.
Re: To wand or not to wand
« Reply #23 on: June 06, 2004, 05:04:58 PM »

I think that was just a movie thing. Also, I don't think actually needed it, he just wanted to have it.
Logged
If you're going to be evil, do it right.

Cho Chung

  • Defense Against the Dark Arts Professor and Gryffindor Prefect
  • Administrator
  • Seventh-year
  • *****
  • Karma: +10/-2
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3011
  • Have you charmed your prefect today? :D
    • View Profile
Re: To wand or not to wand
« Reply #24 on: June 07, 2004, 10:26:04 AM »

Yeah, I thought that was a movie thing as well.  In the books, I don't recall him (or anyone else for that matter) needing a wand to turn into their animal forms.
Logged
Birthdays are great.  Everyone should have them.

Susan Bones

  • Special Reporter For The Wizengamot
  • Slytherin
  • Seventh-year
  • *******
  • Karma: +9/-0
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1742
  • Love few. Hate many. Stack the rest in the cellar.
    • View Profile
    • Look for Susan Bones as meepmeep on IrCQ Chat:  Trivia!
Re: To wand or not to wand
« Reply #25 on: June 07, 2004, 07:31:12 PM »

Or maybe it's just that Pettigrew is a poor excuse for a wizard...... ;).....Nah, it's probably just a screwup on the scriptwriter's part.


Going waaaayyyy back in this thread:

Quote
When the animagi transform into animals, what happens to their wands?.........Heather--I assume it goes to the same place as their clothes.

I was interested in the movie answering this question, but it didn't, did it?  Plus did anyone else notice that when Peter became a rat, he left his clothes behind?

**shudders uncontrollably as she imagines a naked Wormtail turning up on some unsuspecting Muggle's doorstep**

..........It's little things like that, that make non-fans turn to me and say "See?  Harry Potter makes no sense!"




Logged

Special Reporter for the Wizengamot

Heather

  • Prefect
  • Hufflepuff
  • Seventh-year
  • *******
  • Karma: +16/-0
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2138
  • Even a broken watch is correct twice a day.
    • View Profile
Re: To wand or not to wand
« Reply #26 on: June 07, 2004, 09:11:38 PM »

You could always tell them when asked what happens to the wand and/or clothes "It's magic!"  (just kidding - I share the same frustration - if emphasis is placed in the books in needing a wand to perform magic (or certain types of magic), then an explanation needs to be given for the animagus transformation (powerful magic) and the use of a wand).
Logged
Even a broken watch is correct twice a day.

Tiamat

  • Slytherin
  • Prefect
  • Sixth-year
  • *****
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 999
  • Voldy-chan!!
    • View Profile
    • The inside of my head at fanfiction.net...because I'm too lazy to make a real site.
Re: To wand or not to wand
« Reply #27 on: June 07, 2004, 11:30:17 PM »

Yeah, the clothes thing bugged me. He had clothes when he changed from rat to human, so why did they fall off when he changed back? Sirius' clothes didn't. (shame...looked like he had some interesting tattoos)

Perhaps he was so utterly terrified he lost control.
Logged
If you're going to be evil, do it right.

Heather

  • Prefect
  • Hufflepuff
  • Seventh-year
  • *******
  • Karma: +16/-0
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2138
  • Even a broken watch is correct twice a day.
    • View Profile
Re: To wand or not to wand
« Reply #28 on: June 19, 2004, 11:07:14 PM »

5 points each to Tiamat, Susan, Cho, and Angelina
Logged
Even a broken watch is correct twice a day.

Lauren Weasley

  • Graduate, Resident Artist and Quidditch Team Co-Captain
  • Gryffindor
  • Graduate
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3357
  • All must bow before the penguin!
    • View Profile
    • Patronus
Re: To wand or not to wand
« Reply #29 on: June 19, 2004, 11:30:37 PM »

Quote
Plus did anyone else notice that when Peter became a rat, he left his clothes behind?
Arg, yes! That so bothered me!

But Tia's explanation seems plausible to me. I know I mention fan fiction in almost every post about Harry Potter theories, and I'm sorry, but I read one story where the gang was taking their Apparating tests, and they all did fine and passed, except for Seamus, who couldn't manage to bring his clothes along for the ride. Maybe its possible to mess up like that, which is what happened to Wormtail that night. He hadn't made the transformation in years either, so that was probably a contributing factor. Or, the scriptwriters are stupid and did this on their own and JK is just as appalled as I am.
Pages: [1] 2  All   Go Up